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Anonymous commented at 2013-07-19 07:45:13 » #1362999
Problem with all these "Luffy wins no contest" comments: Ichigo's invisible to non-reiatsu using humans. Luffy doesn't use Reiatsu.
Ichigo wins by simple logic. Luffy can wail and attack all he wants, but that doesn't mean anything if he can't hit Ichigo because, y'know, the matter interaction only goes one way. The dead and their reiatsu can effect the living because the living have some reiatsu, but the living don't have enough to do anything to the dead. As for the haki argument...well, Ichigo can theoretically crush all living matter around him in the environment with his presence simply because, y'know, the pressure he exerts with his soul. Same as Luffy does with Haki. Only probably more permanent.
But let's go into this as if they can interact and fight each other..
"see into the future" doesn't matter much if every attack he hits with gets his damage reflected back at him, like what Ichigo did to that Zero Squad member when Ichigo was punched. Ichigo reflects damage on instinct as he's hit.
"punch so fast his punches are invisible" That's anime-special effects, dude. And if we're going by that Ichigo can move his entire body so fast he breaks the sound barrier, is in multiple places at once, and can send a projectile AND BEAT IT TO WHERE IT WAS GOING so he can send another one from another direction almost at the same time, if not at the same time.
"destroy entire islands" Ichigo can destroy a huge range of things (mountains, sky scrapers, weather phenomena) with negligent swings of his sword.
"negate almost all forms of damage with his rubber body" is incorrect. He negates blunt force trauma, some swordplay from non-legendary/sentient swords, and lightning attacks. Ichigo's swords are part of his soul/arguably sentient so Luffy could probably be cut (and if not, well, Luffy has been shown to be susceptible to piercing attacks and getsuga tenshou is a slash and pierce attack, iirc). There's no lighting attacks he knows, and blunt force trauma attacks Ichigo knows extend to just his feet/fists. Luffy's endurance is great, and Armament Haki might help him more, but at the same time Ichigo's got huge endurance as well, along with the ability to harden his body via Blut-Vene in addition to Reiatsu strengthening him.
"Knockout 50,000 creatures that are on average 10 times stronger than humans simply by looking at them." So? Ichigo at the beginning of the series was nearly on par with things that knocked out humans with their presence. And he's only gotten stronger.
I'm not saying Ichigo would win, but Luffy is unlikely to curb stomp Ichigo, or vice versa. Don't let your fanboy-ism of a series completely destroy your critical thinking skills.
29 Points
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Problem with all these "Luffy wins no contest" comments: Ichigo's invisible to non-reiatsu using humans. Luffy doesn't use Reiatsu.
Ichigo wins by simple logic. Luffy can wail and attack all he wants, but that doesn't mean anything if he can't hit Ichigo because, y'know, the matter interaction only goes one way. The dead and their reiatsu can effect the living because the living have some reiatsu, but the living don't have enough to do anything to the dead. As for the haki argument...well, Ichigo can theoretically crush all living matter around him in the environment with his presence simply because, y'know, the pressure he exerts with his soul. Same as Luffy does with Haki. Only probably more permanent.
But let's go into this as if they can interact and fight each other..
"see into the future" doesn't matter much if every attack he hits with gets his damage reflected back at him, like what Ichigo did to that Zero Squad member when Ichigo was punched. Ichigo reflects damage on instinct as he's hit.
"punch so fast his punches are invisible" That's anime-special effects, dude. And if we're going by that Ichigo can move his entire body so fast he breaks the sound barrier, is in multiple places at once, and can send a projectile AND BEAT IT TO WHERE IT WAS GOING so he can send another one from another direction almost at the same time, if not at the same time.
"destroy entire islands" Ichigo can destroy a huge range of things (mountains, sky scrapers, weather phenomena) with negligent swings of his sword.
"negate almost all forms of damage with his rubber body" is incorrect. He negates blunt force trauma, some swordplay from non-legendary/sentient swords, and lightning attacks. Ichigo's swords are part of his soul/arguably sentient so Luffy could probably be cut (and if not, well, Luffy has been shown to be susceptible to piercing attacks and getsuga tenshou is a slash and pierce attack, iirc). There's no lighting attacks he knows, and blunt force trauma attacks Ichigo knows extend to just his feet/fists. Luffy's endurance is great, and Armament Haki might help him more, but at the same time Ichigo's got huge endurance as well, along with the ability to harden his body via Blut-Vene in addition to Reiatsu strengthening him.
"Knockout 50,000 creatures that are on average 10 times stronger than humans simply by looking at them." So? Ichigo at the beginning of the series was nearly on par with things that knocked out humans with their presence. And he's only gotten stronger.
I'm not saying Ichigo would win, but Luffy is unlikely to curb stomp Ichigo, or vice versa. Don't let your fanboy-ism of a series completely destroy your critical thinking skills.
29 Points
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Anonymous commented at 2013-07-19 09:45:11 » #1363042
Further to #1362999's:
There is literally no point in considering a fight where Ichigo can damage Luffy but not vice-versa. You may as well do a play-by-play of a Gray Alien vs. a Chameleon. What exactly are you trying to measure that isn't abysmally boring?
The fact that Ichigo can smash into the ground and physical objects (and receive injuries from them) not withstanding, I would give the battle to Luffy for one reason:
It doesn't make sense for a Main Character to die (permanently), so Once Piece's policy of "Named-Characters-barely-ever-die" means one of them can lose and both survive. Even if Ichigo DOES have to join Luffy's Pirate Crew.
How could that be a bad thing?
2 Points
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Further to #1362999's:
There is literally no point in considering a fight where Ichigo can damage Luffy but not vice-versa. You may as well do a play-by-play of a Gray Alien vs. a Chameleon. What exactly are you trying to measure that isn't abysmally boring?
The fact that Ichigo can smash into the ground and physical objects (and receive injuries from them) not withstanding, I would give the battle to Luffy for one reason:
It doesn't make sense for a Main Character to die (permanently), so Once Piece's policy of "Named-Characters-barely-ever-die" means one of them can lose and both survive. Even if Ichigo DOES have to join Luffy's Pirate Crew.
How could that be a bad thing?
2 Points
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BaconMinion commented at 2013-07-20 01:19:10 » #1363533
tl;dr fanboy wars are boring as fuck.
17 Points
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tl;dr fanboy wars are boring as fuck.
17 Points
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Anonymous commented at 2013-07-21 00:58:19 » #1364005
Ichigo Dangai Version vs Post Time Skip Luffy
There is this guy I watch on YouTube who does this kind of stuff so i'll try and do things the way he does.
Who is Physically Stronger? - I would say Luffy because an Armament Haki Punch is strong enough to destroy several sections in the Plaza on Fishman Island. I've never seen Ichigo do something like that and the only way Ichigo could compete with Luffy's Strength is in the State that he was while fighting against Aizen for the last time. He blocked Aizen's sword swing and the impact created a split in the ground behind Ichigo. He destroyed a hill with a swing and wasn't trying but Luffy also wasn't trying when he sent Hody Jones flying into the Plaza walls. Plus Luffy can Lift objects that weigh far more than anything that Ichigo has ever lifted. He was able to push apart 2 skyscrapers while in an awkward position and that was pre time skip Luffy. So Luffy wins in Strength.
Who is more Durable? - I would say Ichigo. Luffy can take a lot of blunt force damage because of his "Rubber Body" but edged weapons are an issue for him. He can make up for it with Busoshoku Haki but it wasn't able to completely block Hody Jones bite. On the other hand Ichigo took Aizen's Fragor one handed and was still able to fight quite easily. I can also assume that conventional edged weapons won't be a problem for Ichigo in that Dangai state. So I'll give it to Ichigo.
Who has the greater Endurance? - I think that this is a no brainer, Luffy. He had to cope with his immune system trying to adapt to Magallen's poison for 12 hours while chained down to a stone slate. The process cost years of his life but he survived. Ichigo, in any state, has never shown the capability to survive that level of torture, the breaking down and reforming of cells and organs, for a period of half a day. Quite frankly i don't think he can survive that.
Who is Faster? - Speed is weird because I think an individual can react to something but that does not mean that they can move as fast as that object or substance.
Anyway, Ichigo is very fast. In Dangai state I think he's several times faster than his normal Bankai state and in that state he could make several moving after images of himself while fighting against Byakuya. Also, even though he lied about this, Gin's Bankai was stated to be 500x faster than the speed of sound. It's not that fast because again he lied, but it could cut soooooo many buildings in the blink of an eye. Ichigo could react and dodge to those swings in regular Bankai. That means that in Dangai he should be way faster. Also he grabbed Aizen and flew over some Mountains to the main battleground in a few seconds. Super fast. I believe the term is known as "Speedblitz" or "Speedblitzing" I don't really know. However! Luffy could not be tracked by Blueno when he first went Gear Second but the biggest thing is that Luffy dodged and reacted Lasers easily. Now I don't know if Dr.Vegapunk was able to recreate the same speed as the original Kizaru Laser within the Pacifista, which is the Speed of Light, but even if it's 2x or 5x or 10x slower than Light, it's still overwhelmingly faster than anything that Ichigo has ever reacted to in any form. Also Luffy, while protecting Nami, was able to react and block a Lightning bolt from Enel. Lightning is slower than Light but still overwhelmingly faster than anything Ichigo has reacted to. Speed is definitely Luffy.
Who can Destroy More? - Well when Dangai Ichigo went Mugetsu he leveled everything in his wake, a HUGE attack with loads of Power. I believe that everything it touched was cut/brokendown like the way Aizen looked when he took the attack. The attack could definitely cut a big Mountain or two in two. But there are two massive problems with this attack. The first is it's very narrow. It's a long attack but it can't be wider than a few feet. The second is that Ichigo loses his powers after he uses it. If the Mugetsu is not successful in anyway then the opponent has an easy win. Luffy on the other hand destroyed half of Noah, a ship that is several time more durable than Steel because it could stay submerged under 10,000 meters of water pressure for 700 years without taking a dent, half the size on an Island that could fit 5 million people quite comfortably, and that needed to be carried by several Sea Kings which are gigantic creatures. On the One Piece Wikia it says that the Sea Kings are over 5,000meters in size at least. That's soooo big. Ichigo would probably need more than 3 Mugetsu's to destroy the entire ship and Luffy was going to do that with one sustained attack. He did this while suffering from a large wound and passing out. As far as I know, Ichigo has never destroyed something as big as an Island. Again, this one goes to Luffy.
Who has the superior Techniques - In the Dangai State Ichigo can just swing and Blow things away, I think he has the Getsuga Tensho but he never did it, and Mugetsu. That's it and unfortunately a very small list compared to Luffy. Luffy has too many attacks. Pistol, bullet, gatling, Axe, Storm, Fireworks, stamp, bell, and so on. Each of these techniques can be altered and enhanced by Haki and Gear's. Again too many techniques with a larger variety of purposes. Luffy also gets this.
Who is Smarter? - Ichigo because Luffy is a fool/idiot.
Who has the better Powers or Skills? - I think a lot of people are saying things like "Luffy can't see Ichigo" but because of the Thriller Bark arc in one piece and because of Soul King Brook anyone in there world can see spirits/ghost. Also according to Bleach logic, anyone with even the smallest spiritual energy can see shinigami. So Luffy, according to Logics of both manga, can see Ichigo, Hollows, or any spiritual being. Furthermore the "Soul Crush" in Bleach only works on those with less "Power" and "Power" is defined by the things I mentioned above. So since Luffy seems to be winning in most categories wouldn't that make him more "Powerful?" In this case the question should not be "Can Ichigo Soul Crush Luffy" but rather "Can Luffy knockout Ichigo?" On top of all this, Soul Crush never seems to work on the surrounding environment at all. According to the Ginjo Kugo everything, the grass, trees, streets, rivers, has a "Soul." So if everything has a Soul then why is it that Grimmjow can buckle under Aizen Spiritual Force but a Tree still stands tall? There is something off with the Soul Crushing business, so I wouldn't go about using it for anything and is probably the reason why Tite Kubo has not incorporated it in the series since two arcs ago.
Aside from all this in the Dangai State, Ichigo can Walk on air, skilled in Zanjutsu (which is the Bleach term for Swordsmanship), sense Spirit Power, Close and Long Range attacks, Flash Step, Hand to Hand Combat, and can become one with Zangetsu. With Luffy he can negate most blunt force damage with his Rubber Body, Attack long and Close range, Hand to Hand Combat, immunity to most poisons, Gear 2, Soru mainly while in Gear Second but sometimes without it, Gear 3, Sense most things around him and See into the Future with Kenbunshoku Haki, create an invisible or Black armor around his body for attack enhancements with Busoshoku Haki, and Knockout those who are not worth fighting with his Haoshoku Haki. This one goes to Luffy yet again because of the shear amount.
Ichigo 2 Luffy 6
Is I would have to give the win to Luffy (I'm never going to do this again)
21 Points
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Ichigo Dangai Version vs Post Time Skip Luffy
There is this guy I watch on YouTube who does this kind of stuff so i'll try and do things the way he does.
Who is Physically Stronger? - I would say Luffy because an Armament Haki Punch is strong enough to destroy several sections in the Plaza on Fishman Island. I've never seen Ichigo do something like that and the only way Ichigo could compete with Luffy's Strength is in the State that he was while fighting against Aizen for the last time. He blocked Aizen's sword swing and the impact created a split in the ground behind Ichigo. He destroyed a hill with a swing and wasn't trying but Luffy also wasn't trying when he sent Hody Jones flying into the Plaza walls. Plus Luffy can Lift objects that weigh far more than anything that Ichigo has ever lifted. He was able to push apart 2 skyscrapers while in an awkward position and that was pre time skip Luffy. So Luffy wins in Strength.
Who is more Durable? - I would say Ichigo. Luffy can take a lot of blunt force damage because of his "Rubber Body" but edged weapons are an issue for him. He can make up for it with Busoshoku Haki but it wasn't able to completely block Hody Jones bite. On the other hand Ichigo took Aizen's Fragor one handed and was still able to fight quite easily. I can also assume that conventional edged weapons won't be a problem for Ichigo in that Dangai state. So I'll give it to Ichigo.
Who has the greater Endurance? - I think that this is a no brainer, Luffy. He had to cope with his immune system trying to adapt to Magallen's poison for 12 hours while chained down to a stone slate. The process cost years of his life but he survived. Ichigo, in any state, has never shown the capability to survive that level of torture, the breaking down and reforming of cells and organs, for a period of half a day. Quite frankly i don't think he can survive that.
Who is Faster? - Speed is weird because I think an individual can react to something but that does not mean that they can move as fast as that object or substance.
Anyway, Ichigo is very fast. In Dangai state I think he's several times faster than his normal Bankai state and in that state he could make several moving after images of himself while fighting against Byakuya. Also, even though he lied about this, Gin's Bankai was stated to be 500x faster than the speed of sound. It's not that fast because again he lied, but it could cut soooooo many buildings in the blink of an eye. Ichigo could react and dodge to those swings in regular Bankai. That means that in Dangai he should be way faster. Also he grabbed Aizen and flew over some Mountains to the main battleground in a few seconds. Super fast. I believe the term is known as "Speedblitz" or "Speedblitzing" I don't really know. However! Luffy could not be tracked by Blueno when he first went Gear Second but the biggest thing is that Luffy dodged and reacted Lasers easily. Now I don't know if Dr.Vegapunk was able to recreate the same speed as the original Kizaru Laser within the Pacifista, which is the Speed of Light, but even if it's 2x or 5x or 10x slower than Light, it's still overwhelmingly faster than anything that Ichigo has ever reacted to in any form. Also Luffy, while protecting Nami, was able to react and block a Lightning bolt from Enel. Lightning is slower than Light but still overwhelmingly faster than anything Ichigo has reacted to. Speed is definitely Luffy.
Who can Destroy More? - Well when Dangai Ichigo went Mugetsu he leveled everything in his wake, a HUGE attack with loads of Power. I believe that everything it touched was cut/brokendown like the way Aizen looked when he took the attack. The attack could definitely cut a big Mountain or two in two. But there are two massive problems with this attack. The first is it's very narrow. It's a long attack but it can't be wider than a few feet. The second is that Ichigo loses his powers after he uses it. If the Mugetsu is not successful in anyway then the opponent has an easy win. Luffy on the other hand destroyed half of Noah, a ship that is several time more durable than Steel because it could stay submerged under 10,000 meters of water pressure for 700 years without taking a dent, half the size on an Island that could fit 5 million people quite comfortably, and that needed to be carried by several Sea Kings which are gigantic creatures. On the One Piece Wikia it says that the Sea Kings are over 5,000meters in size at least. That's soooo big. Ichigo would probably need more than 3 Mugetsu's to destroy the entire ship and Luffy was going to do that with one sustained attack. He did this while suffering from a large wound and passing out. As far as I know, Ichigo has never destroyed something as big as an Island. Again, this one goes to Luffy.
Who has the superior Techniques - In the Dangai State Ichigo can just swing and Blow things away, I think he has the Getsuga Tensho but he never did it, and Mugetsu. That's it and unfortunately a very small list compared to Luffy. Luffy has too many attacks. Pistol, bullet, gatling, Axe, Storm, Fireworks, stamp, bell, and so on. Each of these techniques can be altered and enhanced by Haki and Gear's. Again too many techniques with a larger variety of purposes. Luffy also gets this.
Who is Smarter? - Ichigo because Luffy is a fool/idiot.
Who has the better Powers or Skills? - I think a lot of people are saying things like "Luffy can't see Ichigo" but because of the Thriller Bark arc in one piece and because of Soul King Brook anyone in there world can see spirits/ghost. Also according to Bleach logic, anyone with even the smallest spiritual energy can see shinigami. So Luffy, according to Logics of both manga, can see Ichigo, Hollows, or any spiritual being. Furthermore the "Soul Crush" in Bleach only works on those with less "Power" and "Power" is defined by the things I mentioned above. So since Luffy seems to be winning in most categories wouldn't that make him more "Powerful?" In this case the question should not be "Can Ichigo Soul Crush Luffy" but rather "Can Luffy knockout Ichigo?" On top of all this, Soul Crush never seems to work on the surrounding environment at all. According to the Ginjo Kugo everything, the grass, trees, streets, rivers, has a "Soul." So if everything has a Soul then why is it that Grimmjow can buckle under Aizen Spiritual Force but a Tree still stands tall? There is something off with the Soul Crushing business, so I wouldn't go about using it for anything and is probably the reason why Tite Kubo has not incorporated it in the series since two arcs ago.
Aside from all this in the Dangai State, Ichigo can Walk on air, skilled in Zanjutsu (which is the Bleach term for Swordsmanship), sense Spirit Power, Close and Long Range attacks, Flash Step, Hand to Hand Combat, and can become one with Zangetsu. With Luffy he can negate most blunt force damage with his Rubber Body, Attack long and Close range, Hand to Hand Combat, immunity to most poisons, Gear 2, Soru mainly while in Gear Second but sometimes without it, Gear 3, Sense most things around him and See into the Future with Kenbunshoku Haki, create an invisible or Black armor around his body for attack enhancements with Busoshoku Haki, and Knockout those who are not worth fighting with his Haoshoku Haki. This one goes to Luffy yet again because of the shear amount.
Ichigo 2 Luffy 6
Is I would have to give the win to Luffy (I'm never going to do this again)
21 Points
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primetime72 commented at 2013-07-21 16:25:26 » #1364358
Anonymous >> #1364005
0_____0 EPIC!!
2 Points
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Anonymous >> #1364005
0_____0 EPIC!!
2 Points
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Anonymous commented at 2013-07-24 11:32:32 » #1366001
Unlike most of the people here, who've seen the entirety of one series and only part of another, and are left to cherry pick, I've seen both, manga included. I love both series but, having seen both of them at full strength I'm gonna say that this gif is bullshit.
3 Points
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Unlike most of the people here, who've seen the entirety of one series and only part of another, and are left to cherry pick, I've seen both, manga included. I love both series but, having seen both of them at full strength I'm gonna say that this gif is bullshit.
3 Points
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